Talk:Sacraments

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Good job so far. There's more work to do, but it's lookin' good. Gomarus 07:44, 20 December 2005 (EST)

Sacrament versus Ordinance

To some these terms may appear to be synonymous. Here is a distinction made at Wikipedia (although no citations):

"Ordinance is a Protestant Christian term for baptism, communion and other religious rituals. Some Protestants do not call them sacraments because they believe these rituals are outward expressions of faith, rather than impartations of God's grace. While a sacrament is seen as something in and of itself sacred, an ordinance is a practice that merely demonstrates the participants faith. The ordinances are observed in remembrance of Jesus, primarily his baptism and the last supper (communion or eucharist)."

Somehow we need to address this. I would rather not have a separate article for Ordinance, but expalin the different uses/nuances here. Any thoughts? Jim Ellis 12:30, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

The quote sounds like something that would come from Zwingli or churches that follow his teachings in this area. Luther and Calvin (and others) dealt with the issue of real presence, and after double-checking, Luther and Calvin are definitely "sacramental". Based on the above definition of an ordinance, I don't think Calvin or Luther would fit, including a good amount of Lutheran and/or Reformed churches. I thus have a hard time seeing how they can say that "ordinance is a Protestant Christian term." Jordan ^(talk) 13:07, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree. There is distinction to be made within Protestantism. One thing of note is that the WCF uses the word sacrament and the LBCF systematically prefers the word ordinance. Stanley Grenz (in his Theology for the Community of God) tends to link the preference for the term ordinance to the Baptists and others who had a Zwinglian view, associating the Latin term sacramentum to the erroneous magical concept in Romanism. One distinction which may prove valid from the Wikipedia quote is "outward expressions of faith, rather than impartations of God's grace." Jim Ellis 13:29, 17 September 2008 (UTC)