Talk:Rick Warren

From Theopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

Contents

Removal

I removed,

This article thankfully provides some examples, but his arguments are beyond weak. It is hardly thought out, doesn't provide "correct hermeneutical principles" although he knows what all the wrong ones are, and does no justice to the furthering of this issue. However, this is always up for debate. That's just my thoughts. JordanBarrett 16:51, 13 December 2005 (EST)

Also,

All you have to do is read the intro and the first few paragraphs to get the tone of this article. I don't find this acceptable for Theopedia's standards. We should never treat our Christian brother this way (or write about him this way), and for those who claim Warren is not a brother, that's another issue. JordanBarrett 17:01, 13 December 2005 (EST)

Also,

Again, this is a blog, where I believe most are not acceptable on Theopedia. It's arguments are weak, and most of it is mere opinion. JordanBarrett 17:07, 13 December 2005 (EST)

I believe that Rick Warren is an unacceptable person to be promoted on Theopedia in any size, shape or form. He is a false teacher deceiving millions upon millions of people around the globe. He is a disgrace to the Cross of our LORD Jesus Christ. Many Christians are blind to this "wolf in sheeps clothing." He is so very clever and crafty that not many notice what he is doing. His teachings are insidious. He has exchanged the truth of God for a lie, all the while using contorted twisted Scripture texts to back up his false teachings. He has removed the offense of the gospel from the gospel, the foolishness of preaching, Christ and Him crucified, the cross of our LORD Jesus Christ, and preaches another gospel. Something we all should be concerned about. You can remove all the links to the critiques from Theopedia about Rick Warren and his Scripture twistings but you will appear before God and give an account for defending this false teacher and suppressing the truth. You will have no excuse. I have warned you. I am most pleased I am not in your shoes. While Rick Warren preaches his Purpose Driven® falsehoods, he is not my brother. He needs to repent of his sinful wickedness, especially his torturing of God's word!!! A greater wrath he is going to incur, fall into, bring upon himself unless he repents. Fides Viva 08:12, 14 December 2005 (EST)
I'm aware of what you believe. I am sorry, but everything you just wrote is nothing new. You did not provide a response to why I removed the links, instead, you reiterated your hate for Rick Warren. It is very clear that you hate Rick Warren. Your judgment is not a righteous judgment. Instead, I believe that you need to repent of your hate and resentment for Rick Warren, who is made in the very image of God, and whom is as much of a sinner as you are. Your posts reek of arrogance and hate and it appears that you desire to judge but not to do it in truth and love. Attacking a false belief should never be done at the expense of another person. We can say "I am honoring God because they are dishonoring him", but if we ignore passages that say to love one another, and to love your enemy, then we may be obeying passages to have righteous judgment and to dismiss false teachers, but we are not obeying all that the Bible says.
Furthermore, no one is defending Rick Warren. I deleted some links because they were poorly argued, were mere opinions on blogs, etc... Not because I think Rick Warren is the greatest! I would like to stop hearing why you think Rick Warren is such a bad guy, and hear why you think these posts should be added back. What about them warrants a place on the article?
Lastly, although you may feel this article should not be on Theopedia, we allow readers to know who people are, what they do, have done, teach, etc... That's why we even have a page on Mormonism and Islam. We're just trying to figure this out. And again, please reply with a paragraph or two, rather than someonthing that takes someone 10-15 minutes to read. JordanBarrett 13:05, 14 December 2005 (EST)

Imagine if the LORD Jesus Christ appeared before you right now and rebuked you sharply. What would you say? "Please LORD, do not be so judgmental and unloving. We all know you are a God of love and that's all you are." "Where I live we do not allow the sharp rebuking of heretics."

It is very clear that you hate Rick Warren. PHOOEY!!! You have sixty seconds to read this post before you self-destruct. Fides Viva 05:28, 15 December 2005 (EST)

Frustration

I'm getting tired of some of these links. Anyone can start a website, write up something and throw in a few scripture quotes, but that doesn't make it a good article. How about some more top-quality articles on Rick Warren? How about avoiding blogs where people spill their opinions rather than their research and disciplined study of Warren's texts, having experienced Saddleback, and producing something worth reading? I just see a lack quality, and these links shouldn't serve as the base-links that people read to get to know more about Warren and his church. JordanBarrett 17:40, 23 November 2005 (EST)

Hi, which ones do you consider appropiate for Theopedia that I have posted so far? Which ones aren't? I thought the other two you deleted are great. How about this one I posted today: Book PREview - Redefining Christianity ps I forgive ya for deleting my links. Fides Viva 05:38, 29 November 2005 (EST)

Without reference to any links you have added, I would suggest the following: In an attempt to produce intelligent, encyclopedic and factual entries in Theopedia, it is generally best to stay away from Blogs -- they are generally non-authoritative opinions and examples of how anybody can say anything on the internet. I personally find Challies' stuff an exception, but that's beside the point. It's true that non-blog websites can be just as spurious and we should steer clear of referencing or linking to eccentric non-authoritative opinionated websites as well. But, in any case, please don't let this be an issue that keeps you from participating. We need your help, brother. Regards, Gomarus 07:55, 29 November 2005 (EST)
Totally agreed. I will brush through the links here and there this week and will touch base with you about ones I may have hesitations with before I do anything. We can talk it out and then come to a decision. Thanks for your patience with me. JordanBarrett 13:12, 29 November 2005 (EST)

Difficulty

I just read the first bit of that link, and read the thesis of the book,

The version of Christianity that Rick Warren presents to world leaders redefines the message of the first century apostles. The key difference is that the Biblical version did not appeal to the world; it appealed only to those who were converted. Warren’s version is popular with the world. Rick Warren has designed a message that appeals to religious consumers whether or not the Holy Spirit has convicted them of their sins. He has devised a business system to mass-market this message to the world. Through his system, he has created a way for pastors to share his success. The sheer effectiveness of this system is rapidly transforming evangelicalism. This transformation is not just a transformation of practice; it is a transformation of message. The change in the practice makes it transferable across a wide spectrum of denominational and theological affiliations. The change in the message makes it acceptable to a wide range of religious consumers.

I'm not here to say this needs to be removed - this isn't poor research, and so it can stay - but I will leave my .02 of frustration with these kinds of quotes.
It appears one of his main problems is that Warren has made the gospel attractive. What's wrong with this? So there are some passages in the Bible that say the world will hate you and you will be persecuted, but did not the opposite also happen in the book of Acts where the gospel was preached and 3,000 were saved in one day? That sounds attractive to me. And so Warren has found a way to preach the gospel so that the whole world will hear it? Why are we trying to stop this? And he has also made a way for other Pastors to understand how to do this? This sounds good to me too. Yet, I do like the last sentence - "It is a transformation of message". This is getting somewhere, because if Warren has in fact found a way to take the whole gospel effectively into the world and to other churches, crossing both denominational and cultural lines, then praise God. Yet, if he's changing the gospel message in order to do this, then yes, lets get this figured out. My problem is that I have yet to see others respectfully prove this, and instead, they cry "he has made the gospel attractive and so he must be changing it's message!" This is an assumption and I rarely see people research the assertion and instead simply accept it. I agree with Challies that I "generally do not agree with the criticisms". I'll be interested to read this book and see what the "change" really is. JordanBarrett 13:42, 29 November 2005 (EST)

Challies comment

"I agree with Challies that I "generally do not agree with the criticisms."

Jordan,

Challies was not saying "....generally do not agree with the criticisms" of the critics of Rick Warren but "...generally do not agree with the criticisms" of the critics who dislike those who critique Rick Warren. "In the past couple of years there have been a few books written specifically to challenge the teachings and assumptions of Rick Warren's mega-seller The Purpose Driven Life. Some of these have also discussed other Purpose Driven material and the man who has produced this successful franchise. These books have sometimes been criticized for being alarmist or for providing an unfair treatment of the subject matter."

Read what Challies wrote in context again and you will see what I mean.

"While I, having read all of that material, generally do not agree with the criticisms, I am quite sure no one could lodge those complaints against Bob DeWaay's new book, Redefining Christianity."

The criticisms of those who criticize the books exposing Rick Warren's false teachings is what Challies is saying he does not generally agree with, not the critical books themselves. "These books have sometimes been criticized for being alarmist or for providing an unfair treatment of the subject matter"

"Yet, I do like the last sentence - "It is a transformation of message". This is getting somewhere, because if Warren has in fact found a way to take the whole gospel effectively into the world and to other churches, crossing both denominational and cultural lines, then praise God."

Rick Warren has changed the biblical gospel into another gospel which is NO gospel at all and that is the whole point everyone is trying to make, including myself. He hasn't found "a way at all to take the whole gospel effectively into the world and to other churches, crossing both denominational and cultural lines," he has transformed the whole gospel into something completely different than the biblical gospel and that is why the world loves it. A sleight of hand!!! Rick Warren's message is filling the church with spurious converts who are now inoculated against the "true-truth." This is what is not clearly articulated both on here and on Wikipedia. Instead, Rick Warren is made out to be this great man of God. He is not. He is a very clever, brilliant in fact, false teacher leading millions astray, believe it or not. Should not that be a cause for concern?

Without waiting for Jordan's response, I would say that clear evidence of preaching a "false gospel" is indeed cause for alarm. I have not read Rick Warren's stuff, but would be interested in any specific examples of him giving a false presentation of the gospel. Gomarus 13:20, 30 November 2005 (EST)
I apologize - I read over that way too fast and should have taken more time. Regardless of my reading error (and thank you for correcting me), I still haven't seen any meat in terms of the criticisms of Rick Warren. I see a lot of "he has changed the gospel" but rarely see the answer to the question, "how so?" This is where I get frustrated. But you are right, if it is true, then there is to be huge concern. But again, I feel I have not seen anything to be concerned about. This has sparked an interest in me to investigate this stuff more deeply, but from what I've read, it's a continuous cry of "he's changed the gospel" and I have never read how he's done this. The few times I've come across examples they have been weak and come from an attitude that treats Warren as if he's doing this on purpose and as if he's an unbeliever. I admit that I immediately dismiss this stuff - perhaps their is good stuff in those articles admidst the basing of brothers in Christ. So yeah - I'll check this out. Thanks again for correcting me. Sorry I read that out of context. JordanBarrett 15:05, 30 November 2005 (EST)

===Howdie=== Gomarus,

you may like to review these articles and essays below to get an overview, you will need a trusty translation of the Bible handy, I can tell you, be prepared for a shock. Take it slowly and carefully. I suggest you pray fervently, requesting God for covering and protection from satanic/demonic attack and ask the Holy Spirit to show you clearly and concisely what Rick Warren has been doing and is still doing, without true accountability. As Lord Acton said: "Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely." Rick Warren has become a law unto himself.

The Gospel: A Method or a Message? How the Purpose Driven Life Obscures the Gospel by Bob DeWaay - "Warren’s man-centered theology comes with more evangelical ideas than does Schuller’s. Warren includes many more Biblical truths than Schuller ever did. In my opinion this makes Warren more deceptive than Schuller. Schuller ignored the Bible and depended on psychological concepts. Warren uses perverted Bible translations that change God-centered passages to man-centered passages. By carefully selecting the right mistranslation for each of his teaching points he has made the man-centered theology touted by Schuller seem Biblical."

The Gospel According to Warren July 2005 - Volume 11, Issue 7

Rick Warren: Three Primary Concerns

The Adulation of Man in the The Purpose Driven Life Part 1 By Richard Bennett

The Purpose Driven Life: Demeaning the Very Nature of God Part 2 By Richard Bennett

Faulty Premises of the Church Growth Movement Issue 89 - July/August 2005 by Bob DeWaay

The Purpose Driven Life – Guidance or Misguided? Reasons Not to Join the 'Purpose Driven Life' Movement by Marshall C. St. John

The Purpose Driven Life: An Assessment

An Examination of Rick Warren’s Teaching on “Exponential Growth” by Brian Jonson "The video on exponential growth, presented by Warren, is one of the most shocking teachings I have ever seen emerge from a Southern Baptist. Our denomination is considered conservative and thoroughly Bible-based. When a minister in the SBC presents philosophies or doctrines that are contrary to scripture, he must be rebuked. This is true of the pastor of the smallest congregation as well as the largest. The fact that Saddleback Church is the largest in our movement makes this action so much more urgent."

The Purpose-Driven Life: An Evaluation Part I & Part II by Southern View Chapel "Once we believe we have the right to change the meaning of God's Word to suit our agenda, there is no limit as to how far the misrepresentation of God's truth can go. This is exactly how virtually every cult and heresy is started."

Rick Warren: the quintessential evangelical...

And these here

with fear and trembling, regards Fides Viva 17:05, 30 November 2005 (EST)

Greetings

Jordan, I detect a note of Hobbitism in you, "a bit of a hasty critter?" :) Us noisy folks cannot see Hobbits. I see you have a tender heart, and you are forgiven.

In the Book of Acts 3000 were saved by God alone through the doctrinally sound message preached, the means God uses to attain His ends. The law had stripped them of their self righteousness and exposed their sins that weighed so heavily upon them, they were cut to their hearts (not much of that goes on today when these modern false gospels are preached) so they certainly received the word gladly. God grants repentance. Repentance and faith/belief are the fruits of regeneration, from God alone, gifts of God alone, regeneration precedes faith then man repents/believes at the moment of and in consequence of the new birth. God adds daily to His church those who are being saved, not man! Not by decisional regenerations, signing commitment cards, accepting Christ, altar calls or other such man made methods no matter how sincere they are. Rick Warren's methods are filling the church with spurious converts, people that think they are saved when in actual fact they are not. They have been inoculated against the "true-truth." I would say that most that go to a Purpose Driven model type church are not Christians, that they are still in their degenerate state and that is tragic. They are even harder to reach than a full-blown atheist.

Here are several articles and essays to study at some further time:

Dr. Lloyd-Jones on the Altar Call

In Defense of Refusing to Heed an Altar Call By Sandy Fiedler

The "Altar Call" Is it helpful or harmful? by Fred G. Zaspel

Altar Call by G. I. Williamson

DECISIONAL REGENERATION by J. E. Adams

Accepting Christ by I.C. Herendeen

ALTAR CALLS by John MacArthur

A Closer Look at Invitations and Altar Calls A Biblical Response to Moving God and Manipulating People by Carey Hardy

A Close Look at Invitations and Altar Calls (Handout and Study Notes) Carey Hardy Associate Pastor, Adult and Family Ministries (Statements are adaptations, and in some cases exact quotations, from material by Jim Ehrhard, Jim Elliff, D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Iain Murray and others.)

Altar Call Evangelism By Paul Alexander

I know it is "frustrating" to hear constantly that Rick Warren preaches another gospel, and he does, the problem is because he distorts Gods word so craftily it is very difficult to see, and even more difficult to uncover, he wraps his gospel in amongst bits and pieces of the truth, let alone showing ones how he does it. I would have to write a 200 page book myself trying to show you but I do not have the pen of a ready writer!

Psalm 45:1 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.

This has sparked an interest in me to investigate this stuff more deeply, but from what I've read, it's a continuous cry of "he's changed the gospel" and I have never read how he's done this.

I think if you go through the links I left above for Gomarus, one at a time, your eyes will slowly open. From what I have read of yours to date I think you are a person with a passion for the "true-truth." True? Do not settle for anything less. If you want, email Mr. Challies to query him some more over this, as he has had personal contact with Richard Abanes and all things relating to Rick Warren and Purpose Driven. Mr. Challies has done a review of Abanes' book, see here:

Book Review - Rick Warren and the Purpose that Drives Him

and did an interview series with Abanes

Summer Interview Series: Richard Abanes (Part 1)

Summer Interview Series: Richard Abanes (Part 2)

Summer Interview Series: Richard Abanes (Reflections)

and had lunch with Mr. Abanes:

Lunch with Abanes

Maybe God is going to use YOU to powerfully and clearly expose the false teachings of Rick Warren? There is a cost involved. soli Deo gloria

a voice crying out in the wilderness Fides Viva 18:32, 30 November 2005 (EST)

Thanks for your reply, and for the links for me to read. After reading your comments, I guess I end up wondering how you conclude that "I would say that most that go to a Purpose Driven model type church are not Christians, that they are still in their degenerate state." It appears you live in a world that is black and white, yeah? I just don't find it that easy to say "that person goes to a Purpose Driven church and so they are probably not saved." You are denouncing the salvation of many who in fact show the fruit of the Spirit and true love for God and others. I don't agree with this blanket statement, and I don't think you realize the significance of that comment - you are talking about people's eternal state. God is powerful and clever enough to use Warren's methods - whether right or wrong - to save thousands if not more. And as it appears you are a Calvinist (claiming that regeneration comes before faith and that God grants repentance), God has risen up Rick Warren for his purpose (no pun intended) and will use him for his glory. I hope we can agree on this. Thanks again for your thoughts and interactions. JordanBarrett 19:16, 30 November 2005 (EST)

Hi there Jordan,

hope all is well with you. And thank you for your observations about me. I am not really a Calvinist or Truly Reformed because I was utterly depraved before God saved me, and prior to the new birth I was a cold hard hearted compassionless man, prior to regeneration Calvinist's and Arminian's and all those in-between are only totally depraved or radically corrupt as Dr. R. C. Sproul says.

God is powerful and clever enough to use Warren's methods - whether right or wrong - to save thousands if not more.

God does not use Rick Warren's methods at all, period. You give Rick Warren's methods too much credit. Rick Warren's methods are false. God uses His method, the truths of the biblical Gospel message preached to save His people from their sins and from the wrath that is to come.

The only good thing that comes out of studying Rick Warren's material is that some individuals start seeing the heresies for themselves and come out from underneath that legalistic deceptive worldly Purpose Driven® system. They are actually driven out as resisters because they start questioning the errors in the whole PD® movement. But God is faithful and He leads His people out like a shepherd leads the sheep and brings them to safe lush green pastures with rivers of living water.

Driven or Led? Notice the difference between being "driven" and being "led"

God has risen up Rick Warren for his purpose (no pun intended) and will use him for his glory. I hope we can agree on this.

Romans 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." NASB

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil. NASB

BTW, Rick Warren uses that above verse in his book but only the first part of it from the NLT.

II. This book misrepresents and distorts the gospel. It overlooks the fact that an unbeliever does have an identity, as well as a purpose in his life outside of a relationship with Christ. That in fact man's purpose, nature, and identity is hostile to God, fallen, and totally depraved apart from salvation. The book glosses over, minimizes, or ignores realities such as: the seriousness of sin before a holy God, the need for salvation, that God is righteous, just, holy, etc.

The heading of Chapter 7 has the following verse

Proverbs 16:4 (NLT) "The Lord has made everything for his own purposes."

However, this is not the complete verse! Here is the complete verse in the (NLT) and then the (NASB).

Proverbs 16:4 (NLT) "The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for punishment."

Proverbs 16:4 (NASB) "The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil."

I can only lovingly(agape) hope and pray that God opens up Rick Warren's eyes and grants him repentance. How about you? What do you think? Have you looked through anymore of the articles? Thanks for your patience with me. Fides Viva 21:14, 2 December 2005 (EST)

Thanks again for your thoughts. You mentioned that,
God does not use Rick Warren's methods at all, period. You give Rick Warren's methods too much credit. Rick Warren's methods are false.

I doubt you'll find much Scriptural support for this statement, if any. Further, I did not credit Warren's methods, but instead I stated that God is the one who is using Warren's methods (whether true or false) to save people despite the fact that Warren is a sinner. God can also use you, me, whoever - SINNERS - for his glory despite our imperfections and limitations. You may sense I have a soft heart, and on the flipside I fear you have some feelings towards Warren that may not be pure (but note, that's my fear, not my conclusion). I'll let you know once I get a chance to read through this stuff more. Thanks. JordanBarrett 22:35, 2 December 2005 (EST)

I'll let you know once I get a chance to read through this stuff more. Finished them yet, Bro? No? oh! Jus checkin'~jus checkin'~stay calm cool and very collected, yo has gotta have ya wits about you for the 6th, eh.! Will be a prayin' for you, love Fides Viva 12:13, 3 December 2005 (EST) as I toodle back off out there to see if me heart is PURE or not, lookin' down at my hands, yes, they're clean, phewwwwwwl....... ;-) + ><> +

Revert and Freeze

I have reverted the article to last by Jordan. I have "Protected" the article from furthe changes for a while. It seems like the negative links and info provided by Fides Viva are becoming overkill -- although I agree with the bottom line. Let's give it a rest for a while. Until discussion can reach a concensus here, let's not make any more changes. Gomarus 08:06, 14 December 2005 (EST)

The links were NOT overkill. They were put there to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Rick Warren is a false teacher.
John 7:24
Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.
Does the Bible give us any guidlines for judging ? How are we to judge with right judgement as the LORD Jesus Christ says for us to do? Especially some of the twisted and distorted doctrines that flow from the hearts and minds of false teachers? Are we supposed to roll over and play dead and say nothing? Are these two examples Biblical/Scriptural or are they damnable heresy?:
Quote:
"Dear God, I want to know your purpose for my life. I don't want to base the rest of my life on wrong things. I want to take the first step in preparing for eternity by getting to know you. Jesus Christ, I don't understand how but as much as I know how I want to open up my life to you. Make yourself real to me. And use this series in my life to help me know what you made me for." Warren goes on to say: "Now if you've just prayed that prayer for the very first time I want to congratulate you. You've just become a part of the family of God."
"Right now, God is inviting you to live for his glory by fulfilling the purposes he made you for… all you need to do is receive and believe…. Will you accept God’s offer?” “I invite you to bow your head and quietly whisper the prayer that will change your eternity, ‘Jesus, I believe in you and I receive you.’ If you sincerely meant that prayer, congratulations! Welcome to the family of God! You are now ready to discover and start living God’s purpose for your life."
These so called prayers are unbiblical from the mouth of sinful man as far as I am concerned! They are totally unbiblical and absolutely deceptive. I cannot think of a more deceptive set of words formulated into so called prayers than these. No one is welcomed into the family of God by those prayers or any like them. Not one single person can believe and receive the LORD Jesus Christ prior to regeneration. Only those who are born of God receive and believe (trust in, reply upon, cling to) the LORD Jesus Christ. John 1: 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Born of God!!! Those who are "born of God" are those who receive and believe the LORD Jesus Christ and no one else.
No one, not one single person is saved by saying those sorts of prayers Rick Warren dictates and I cannot stress this fact enough. People are saved by God alone in spite of deceptive prayers like that. We do not take the first step, God took the first step, He is the Prime Mover! God takes the first step in each one of His Elect, His chosen people. Our lives have nothing to do with basing the rest of our lives on wrong things. Wrong things does not mean sin. Wrong things may include sin but not all wrong things are sin. For example my wife may have left two meals in the freezer for our dinner, one was hers and the other was mine but because I did not look at the label she had placed on mine I ate hers instead. I ate the wrong meal by mistake but that mistake is not sin. To err is human.
Intellectual assent to the existence of Jesus Christ, God, takes us no higher than the level of demons. They believe there is one God and they tremble but they will never ever be saved. NEVER!!! They and Satan are beyond repentance, reserved for the day of judgment, along with all the unrepentant wicked. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. People are welcomed into the family of God by being "born again" by the Holy Spirit of God alone first and the fruits/gifts of the new birth are repentance and belief, at and in consequence of being "born from above", not before. People do not believe and repent and then they are born again, and people that teach such are false teachers. If repenting and believing was the sine qua non (without which, not; something that is indispensible) for salvation then even Satan and the demons/devils will be able to repent and believe and be born again. But that is not the case. The fruits/gifts of regeneration/new birth/born again result in repentance and belief and we repent and believe, God does not do that for us.
Rick Warren is wrong to get people to say those "decisional rote prayers" and then say "welcome to the family of God." He does not have that authority to say that. Only God alone has the authority to welcome His people into His family. If there is no godly sorrow and repentance, there is no new birth. Rick Warren is filling the church with TARES.
God's Part and Man's Part in Salvation John G. Reisinger
The Unrepenting Repenter By Jim Elliff The believer in Christ is a lifelong repenter. He begins with repentance and continues in repentance. (Rom. 8:12-13) David sinned giant sins but fell without a stone at the mere finger of the prophet because he was a repenter at heart (2 Sam. 12:7-13). Peter denied Christ three times but suffered three times the remorse until he repented with bitter tears (Mt. 26:75). Every Christian is called a repenter, but he must be a repenting repenter. The Bible assumes the repentant nature of all true believers in its instruction on church discipline. A man unwilling to repent at the loving rebuke of the church can be considered nothing more than "a heathen and a tax collector." (Mt. 18:15-17)
The Christian life is one of repenting always.
Please forgive if I have taken you wrong. I do not mean to sound harsh, I am just deeply toubled and concerned. False teaching and false teachers like Rick Warren really bother me. And I do speak the truth in love, love for Almighty God and love for my brothers and sisters in God's family and a love(agape) and compassion for the lost on the highway to the lake of fire. I want to snatch as many as I can from the fire before I die. Fides Viva 09:09, 14 December 2005 (EST)
Not overkill? Do you believe what you just wrote above is not overkill? Again brother, I am sorry, but you are unloading again. Please provide links for us to read rather than copying the entire quote. It's more readable, and it remains a conversation, which is what this is supposed to be. JordanBarrett 13:07, 14 December 2005 (EST)

I wrote the above. With the quotes and links provided. I am doing my very level best to show you how Rick Warren presents an easy believism crossless non-repenting gospel along with other false teachings. I am most annoyed that the links I posted this morning which took me about five to six hours to put together were brushed off and deleted and frozen at the flick of a button. I have posted them on Wikipedia so I have more control over them there.

Pragmatism and numbers prove nothing. Many false ideas have generated huge numbers. Though Rick Warren and his Purpose Driven® movement have all the outward signs of good works and fun and entertainment, inside, it is a wicked deadly snare to the undiscerning. The Purpose Driven® Life and the Satanic Bible are not that much different from each other, they both promote self, they both are published by Rupert Murdoch's companies. Rick Warren is Rupert's pastor????? The Satanic Bible is not about mad-Satanists worshipping Satan and sacrificing humans to him, it is all about how to love yourself. Check it out. That is the same thing Rick Warren promotes. How to love yourself??????? Check out the March 2005 Ladies Home Journal which I have already provided a link to an article about that. He is disingenuous when he says it is not about you when his whole Purpose Driven® movement is focused on you with a whole lot of "god-talk" to back up his dubious claims. He treats his listeners as consumers and he provides the products that they want. He does not present the full-orbed gospel on a consistent basis but everything is watered down and tainted with the leaven of his Purpose Driven® false teachings. Check it out for yourself. It is only the Holy Spirit of God that reveals the true-truth through God's Word.

On the front cover of The Purpose Driven® life it says: "WHAT ON EARTH AM I HERE FOR?" Then on page 9 Rick Warren says : "This is more than a book; it is a guide to a 40-day spiritual journey that will enable you to discover the answer to life's most important question: What on earth am I here for?....." Who is the focus on there? First, Rick Warren's Purpose Driven® products will not enable you or anyone to discover the answers to life’s most important question. Second, life's most important question is NOT "What on earth am I here for?"

Life's MOST important question is Acts 9:5 And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" The focus here is on God and not on man. In Rick Warren's books and Purpose Driven® programs the focus is on mere-man and what God can do for him.

Life’s most important question is "WHO ARE YOU, LORD?"

Rick Warren's Purpose Driven® empire is a journey into spiritual deception, and millions upon millions of people are hooked into it. There is no fear of God or holiness of God in the whole Purpose Driven® empire. They do not tremble at God's Word. Do you? Fides Viva 05:49, 15 December 2005 (EST)

A small note

I haven't read any of the comments here (there's a lot!), but let me throw this in: except for the last sentence, it doesn't seem like the quoted criticism represents the most significant and consistent criticism of Warren from respected Reformed folks... rather it seems like a fringe criticism. -Aaronshaf 11:05, 15 December 2005 (EST)

A clarification on your small note. Are you saying the quotes I posted above your comments are criticisms? They are not criticisms, they are the words of Rick Warren from a teaching video of his and his Purpose Driven® Life book (the link to that is dead at present). The post is my criticisms of those quoted prayers by Warren and part of his comments are: "Now if you've just prayed that prayer for the very first time I want to congratulate you. You've just become a part of the family of God." & "If you sincerely meant that prayer, congratulations! Welcome to the family of God! You are now ready to discover and start living God’s purpose for your life." How does Rick Warren determine who is born again by saying those prayers? Where is such a thing taught in the Bible? How can he say: "You've just become a part of the family of God." and "Welcome to the family of God." Has God given him special insight into a person's eternal destiny? What if Rick Warren is completely wrong in saying what he says, and I believe he is, he is misleading millions upon millions of people who may end up in the lake of fire because of his teaching them that? Where is the repentance. Where is the Godly sorrow of sinning against a holy and righteous God? Is that not tragic? Is that not terribly sad? Should that not cause us to weep and wail? I would say some, in spite of Rick Warren teaching people that, are saved by God's grace alone through His Word alone in the finished work of Christ alone upon that brutal bloody roman cross. If you listen to this broadcast you will hear Rick Warren plainly deny sola fide:
Do respected Reformed folks not see these "example prayers" of Rick Warren as a vitally critical area of concern? What is more serious that that? Rick Warren's clear cut distortions and torturing of God's holy Word? Or are both as serious as each other? Which is the prime one? Is Rick Warren a Reformed Christian? Is Rick Warren even a Christian? Is Rick Warren a "wolf in sheep’s" clothing or not? Is he the makings of a "cult" leader? How do we tell if he is or not? Rick Warren may be one of the most humblest, nicest, kindest, sincere, generous, gentlest men around, in outward appearance, so is the Dali Lami also, but he is deceived and deceiving millions. True? Rick Warren has let the whole world know through Christian media and secular media all the good works and good deeds he does including reverse tithing, he gives 90% and keeps 10% but how many people can realistically do that and boast about it? How much money does Rick Warren generate from his false teaching Purpose Driven® material each financial year? Thousands? Millions? He does not leave out the doing of good deeds part of his life does he? What does the LORD Jesus Christ himself say about that? I do not hate Rick Warren and I am not envious of him, I feel sorry for him (despite what your friend Jordan says), I hate and detest the fact that he is deceiving so many people. Exactly the same as I despise and detest and hate what Adolph Hitler or Jim Jones or Charles Taze Russell(my father-in-law is caught up in that insidious cult) or Mormons(another deceptively wicked cult) or Pol Pot or whomever, have done or do. Osama Bin laden and his band of fanatical evil satanic muslim terrorists. I do not hate him or them but I sure hate what they do. I hate what those who flew the planes into the TT on 9/11 did but I do not hate them or their families or any other of my enemies. I can tell you, I hated just about everyone once upon a time. I hated the whole world, including Christians. The article here on Theopedia about Rick Warren promotes him and is he a heretic or not? I believe he is. A heretic with a warm friendly smiling face, full of jokes and gags. He is a tickling ears false teacher. Oh well! God will give people over to what they want and draws his Elect out of all walks of life, into His glorious invisible church. The visible one is in chaos it seems. Sorry that my comments are so long. You will be rid of me soon enough, sooner than you think. So you have to be a “respected Reformed folk” to critique false teachers like Warren? Oh? He is America’s national Pastor???? Don’t attack God’s anointed? How do you determine who are respected Reformed folks that discern Rick Warren's deadly poison, leaven? Who sets the standard? Do we have a reformed Pope who issues Bulls on who is in and who is out? Fringe criticism are out? Gee? All the prophets in the Old Testament would not be classed as respectable by most. True? John the Baptist? He wasn’t respectably dressed. True? He would have been made to sit on the floor in front of the congregation because he had his dirty dusty camels hair clothes on. True? Jesus Christ’s disciples were a wild looking bunch? True? Most died bloody violent painful deaths. Not very respectable Reformers were they? I wonder how many like that would be welcomed into the church today? Jesus Christ’s church? All of them! Man made churches? None of them. Give Al Mohler a tingle on the phone and ask him to do a thorough critique of Rick Warren's Purpose® empire, study ALL the resources available, the good ones and the not so good ones, even ones by fringe critics like me, leave no stone unturned in the quest for the "true-truth" of the matter. Expose Rick Warren crystal clearly once and for all for the whole world to see. Warren is a Southern Baptist isn't he? And get Mr. Mohler to reveal the truth to the WHOLE church world wide. Nip Rick Warren in the bud now before he takes control of the whole church, worldwide, with his Purpose Driven® business. Rick Warren does not stand for anyone criticizing him and his Purpose Driven® methods and if one does, well he basically accuses you of criticizing what God is blessing. Rick Warren gives God the credit for something Rick Warren does????? So he gives God credit for all the Scripture twisting in his Purpose Driven® programs does he? I do not know what Rick Warren's deepest heart motives are, no one on this planet knows our heart motives, but one thing I am 100% absolutely sure of and that is the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it? Christian and non-Christian alike. God knows. Once again, sorry for writing so much and sorry for taking up so much of your time. Christians are not to receive anything lightly that concerns faith and salvation. They need to try and examine it over and over. We are not to reject an error ignorantly, but rationally; nor are we to embrace a truth till we have debated and examined whether it is a truth or not. -- Thomas Brooks SDG Fides Viva 09:07, 16 December 2005 (EST)
Retrieved from "http://www.theopedia.com/Talk:Rick_Warren"
Personal tools