Talk:Emerging Church
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Ed Stetzer's article...
Is there a reason this article doesn't reflect the three-fold division Ed Stetzer mentions in his article? I found it quite reasonable and it certainly lines up with my own experience with Emergents...I have an article on them here. -David 07:29, 10 May 2006 (PDT)
- Sorry for the delay in responding. I think those are good divisions, but to be honest, I've seen many "divisions" out there that all seem good. I think this goes back to the fact that this movement (or conversation - whatever) is so diverse, that it's hard to capture it even in a general sense. At the least, I think you raise an important issue as to how we want this article formated. Maybe it needs to be redone, or a new section added, or... I'm up for ideas. JordanBarrett (talk) 21:36, 29 May 2006 (PDT)
- Perhaps we could distinguish between those who hold to Christian orthodoxy (doctrinally) and those who don't, as a start? -David 11:09, 1 June 2006 (PDT)
Propositional truth
- Instead, those in the EC want to refrain from primarily arguing for the truth and logical consistency of the Christian faith, and begin primarily living the Christian faith. Thus, what develops is a faith that is lived while little attention is given to what one actually believes.
This doesn't seem distinctive to EC adherents at all. I've heard plenty of people who oppose PM and the EC who readily admit that knowing propositional truth itself helps us to the greater task of loving Christ for who he is and living that out. So I don't find the above very helpful in explaining the EC. Also, it makes it sound like non-EC adherents don't give a primary emphasis to living the Christian faith, or that the EC has an edge of living it out that others don't. -Aaronshaf 08:58, 24 May 2006 (PDT)
- Am I reading what I wrote backwards or are you? Adherents to EC think that Christianity today is simply all about propositional truth and not about living it. So they swing to the other side and want to live it yet ditch any emphasis on propositional truth. Perhaps I worded that poorly, but it is very distinctive (and needs to be criticized) of the EC. You're right too, many who oppose PM and the EC affirm propositional truth - is that not what I said? I'll try and reword it some. JordanBarrett (talk) 09:11, 24 May 2006 (PDT)
- Reworded: Many of those who oppose the EC would affirm that living out truth is primary over simply knowing it propositionally, therefore it is not distinctive to the EC. -Aaronshaf 10:11, 24 May 2006 (PDT)
- Ok, I'll try for another reword then. What I'm getting at is that EC leaders typically say that 95% of what we need to care about is the way we live. Doctrines don't just become subordinate - any care for them seems to hard to find. In fact, doctrines are "remade" (e.g. atonement theory) to fit a better living style. I don't want to say that EC leaders don't care at all about doctrines, but they are towards the bottom of the priority list. JordanBarrett (talk) 11:27, 24 May 2006 (PDT)
Article suggestion(s)
-Aaronshaf 15:56, 27 May 2006 (PDT)
- Interesting...perhaps that and some of Stetzer's material could be worked into that? -David 05:51, 28 May 2006 (PDT)
http://www.dankimball.com/vintage_faith/2006/04/origin_of_the_t.html
http://www.dankimball.com/vintage_faith/2006/04/origins_of_the_.html
JordanBarrett (talk) 21:31, 29 May 2006 (PDT)
Name change
I changed the name of the article because:
(1) When you search "emergent church", Theopedia comes up on the first page on Google, however, when you search "emerging church" it won't come up on the first page.
(2) I hardly ever hear/read others calling it "emergent" and instead see/hear "emerging" and so I think we'll get even more hits than we're getting now (hopefully). JordanBarrett (talk) 21:46, 21 July 2006 (PDT)
- Good call, Jordo. I have also noticed most refering to "emerging" rather than "emergent." Jim, Gomarus 06:14, 22 July 2006 (PDT)
Audio problem
Well, after I added the references stuff it seems it screwed up the show/hide option on the audio. Tom's looking into it, but we may not have a fix. If we don't, I'll make a link for "more audio". Just a heads up of what's going on. JordanBarrett (talk) 22:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Show/hide Multi-media
What happened to the show/hide feature? this multimedia box is overwhelming and disruptive to a newbie wanting to read about the Emergent church. IMNSHO, Gomarus 21:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
- When I used the "ref" system, for some reason it decided to backfire and voids the show/hide feature. It needs to be set up as a "See more audio" link for now. JordanBarrett (talk) 05:30, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Emerging and Emergent
What do you guys think of Driscoll's comment -
- "I was part of what is now known as the Emerging Church Movement in its early days�. I had to distance myself, however, from one of many streams in the merging church because of theological differences. Since the late 1990s, this stream has become known as Emergent. The emergent church is part of the Emerging Chruch Movement but does not embrace the dominant ideology of the movement. Rather, the emergent church is the latest version of liberalism. The only difference is that the old liberalism accommodated modernity and the new liberalism accommodates postmodernity" (p. 21)." - xcerpt from Mark Driscoll's Confessions of a Reformission Rev.
This seems similar to the quote Jim added a day or two ago. Is this accurate? Should we not consider "emerging" and "emergnet" synonymous? If we distinguish them, I want to make sure that Driscoll is not our only resource here. JordanBarrett (talk) 00:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
- In my opinion, Driscoll has a following -- he and his "following" are trying to make a distinction between his orthodox "emerging" and the more controversial "Emergent Village, et. al." I'm not sure the distinction will stand and I don't think there is a need for separate articles (at least not yet), however, the "attempt to distinguish" should be addressed. Jim, . . . Gomarus 12:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
An important distinction
I think that an important distinction should be made between the terms emergent Church and The Emerging Church. From my understanding the Emerging Church is looking to change the methods by which we do church. Dan Kimball would be an excellent example of an Emerging Church leader. On the other hand the emergent Church movement wants to look at the very foundations of Christianity and make sure they fit in our postmodern world. Making changes where needed. Brian McLaren would be an example of a predominant emergent leader. — unsigned comment by Matthew Potter (talk • contribs)
- As I noted on your talk page, please feel free to integrate these distinctions into the article. If you have any more thoughts on how this would look, please note them here. Thanks for your help. Jordan Barrett (talk) 05:15, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
- Jason Carlson discussed the difference here in March of '07. But in my opinion the distinction is not that clear-cut. Those who are "emerging" are already leaning toward "emergent village" mentality where cultural relevance and inclusivism quickly take precedence over orthodox doctrine and the exclusivity of Christ. Mr. Potter is of course free to propose edits and changes to reflect this distinction (it is perhaps needed). E.g. Mark Driscoll is a proponent of the distinction and Wikipedia has a subsection in their article noting the same. I would look for our potential Theopedia adjustment to be based on citable resources -- noting not only the distinctions but the overlapping tendencies. My $0.02. Jim Ellis 14:40, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
- I agree that any changes made in this direction needs to have supporting evidence. Jordan Barrett (talk) 05:55, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Audio and External links needs cleanup!
The audio section needs a serious cleanup. Jordan Barrett (talk) 05:15, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
- Unless someone wants to preserve the links/audio, I'm going to eventually come through and rid the article of many of them. Just a heads up. Jordan Barrett (talk) 05:48, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
List of Emerging Church Figures
I know the name of the second list is cumbersome, but it's inaccurate and unfair to describe people as influential, without citation, when they distance themselves from it. — unsigned comment by NZUlysses (talk • contribs)
